About This Discussion:
Peggy Dau of Mad Perspectives is on this week’s podcast and we were excited to talk all things New Media and how television as we know it is transforming.
There is no industry that’s exempt from the impact of innovation, and even TV is seeing the change in how people select their programming and consume content. Thanks to the creation of the smart phone along with data becoming more accessible, we’ve seen a major shift in this new phenomenon.
We talked about the shift in the way data is collected as we no longer have to make assumptions based on incomplete Neilson surveys. Now, thanks to tracking and big data, we can see first hand what customers are watching, in addition to how long they are watching it, where they are falling off, etc.
So how will TV as we know it, change? And how will the change as the data collected becomes more detailed and impactful and drives the content that we’re not curating?
We talked about all of this plus so much more.
You can connect with Peggy on LinkedIn at: https://www.linkedin.com/in/peggydau/
To learn more about the Women In Streaming Media Group, visit: https://www.linkedin.com/groups/13603125/
About Peggy Dau:
Peggy Dau is an independent consultant operating as MAD Perspectives, based in Fairfield, CT. Peggy worked at Hewlett-Packard for many years until she left to start MAD Perspectives. She has worked at the intersection of IT, Broadcast & Media for most of the 2000s. Her clients are technology vendors serving the broadcast and media sector. She helps her clients refine their go-to-market strategies, enhance partner relationships and focus communication about their solutions on the business value rather than bits and bytes of those solutions. Peggy is always connecting the dots between market trends, existing and emerging technologies and the impact for her clients in the media sector.
You can connect with Peggy on LinkedIn at: https://www.linkedin.com/in/peggydau/
To learn more about the Women In Streaming Media Group, visit: https://www.linkedin.com/groups/13603125/
Syya and Erin: All right, welcome to another episode of The Innovation Calling Podcast. I'm Erin Smith and I'm Syya Yasotornrat. And Syya, I'm going to let you introduce our guest today. Excellent. I am super, super excited as always but super excited because this is Peggy Dah. We've asked her to join us today.
She is the founder of Mad Perspectives, s a consulting firm focused on the ever-evolving landscape of TV and media, Peggy. I know you're not going to want me to brag about you too much, but I have to. She has over 20 years experience in the Telco space. So, you know Peggy's weathered many storms.
She knows a thing or two about where the next generation of media and entertainment is going so Peggy. Thank you for joining us. Today. We're going to keep this very general for now. But as you know, I've got nieces and nephews that and Erin's kids that are under 8 years old. And their view of entertainment is vastly different even from the oldest Millennials, who are pushing 30 years old.
So on that note, Peggy, welcome to The Innovation calling podcast
Peggy: Hi Syya, Hi Erin, it's nice to be here. It's nice to be here to talk about TV and media and what's changing its say it is you say is a crazy space.
Syya: And you made fun of me last year when I was like, I don't understand you know, why? You know, how II get I get the concept that you know, people are looking at their mobile phone. But I was always so confused as to the value of it. I mean do I really want to screw up my vision looking at a tiny screen, right.
Peggy: Right but then it's about convenience, isn't it? You know, I mean, there's this there's been this whole Evolution that has been going on really for the last almost 20 years that changed how we perceived consuming content and it started with like really old technology called the VCR.
Which change, which gave you the first opportunity to watch TV On Demand, right? Because before that you always watched on a something that was defined by somebody else. And so we had that was a big disruption at the time that oh, you could attach another device to your TV and you can watch TV whenever you want.
And then that kind of evolved into said, okay. Yeah, there's will change the name. It'll be VCR be a DVR. It's going to be whatever right? But it was still another device and then somebody launched this really cool thing called the smartphone and the one that really disrupted the market was the iPhone because all of a sudden you had all these little like apps on your phone, and some of those apps allowed you to consume video.
And a lot of them were games as well. And so there was this idea that I can use this phone to do a lot more. And that's really what has completely changed the market now, right? Is the ability of devices like a smartphone, like a tablet, that have completely disrupted the old TV way of watching TV. And it's not that that old way doesn't still exist because I bet you watch the football game on your big screen TV with your friends and your living room in a bar, but it still on a TV.
But you watch a lot of other content on these other devices, and that puts the consumer in charge. For the first time in this space, the consumers in charge because now look at all the announcements have been going on, even just in the last couple weeks right. About direct to consumer offerings from big-name media companies, right. CBS wants to go direct to consumer. NBC wants to go direct to consumer. Disney want to go direct to consumer because guess what?
Who they've been dependent on all these years to understand who's watching their content? Nielsen, which they only ever did a sampling. They never really understood. What do we really like or dislike? Did we change the channel? Did we step away? They had no idea. But now with all these devices, you can start measuring how we are enjoying the content. They're all investing in content, but they're still not doing a great job of capturing all that information about how we want to enjoy that content. They just.. they're making a lot of assumptions still, and they're spending some money.
Erin: So how do they compete with? I mean because obviously, that's what Netflix is done right is that they've captured all this data and they know. I mean everything that they see the user watches and how they watch drives new programming. So, how are these archaic companies competing with that or how can they at this point in the game?
Peggy: I think so. So I think it's really interesting. I think you're beginning to see the rise of the Walled Garden, which is a very old school way of protecting your assets, isn't it? You're seeing Disney say yeah, we're going to have our own streaming solution and it's going to be an in you're going to stay in 2019.
So it's right around the corner. And guess what happens when their licensing agreements expire with Netflix? Netflix isn't going to have Disney content anymore because it's going to be on the Disney streaming service. So that's one way.
Syya: So I guess okay. So as a consumer does this mean then if Disney is only going to stream on the own Disney app to distribute their own concrete direct to the consumer. Am I gonna have to log in like 20 times in different apps to talk?
Peggy: I think that there's that risk. I think that risk exists. I also think what you're going to see so, you know today like in the movie world, right? There's the released windows. Right, it used to be that a movie with the sympathy U.S.made movie, right? It would be released in the US on a certain date and then in Europe and then in China. They've gone to a lot of day and date releases. So it releases the same day and date globally because piracy concerns things like that. But I think what you may see from somebody like a Disney, is you're going to see release dates for some of their premium content.
So they may say, okay for my streaming service, you're going to be able to see the next Star Wars movie for six months only on the Disney streaming service and on and on Disney properties, right? So it's like obviously they're not going to give up on the Disney Channel in the broadcast arena or anything. But when it comes to broadening the horizon because.. at the same time its a money game, right? I mean so they may realize, Oh, yeah. I still need to get to Netflix. I still need to get to Amazon or Hulu or whatever, but I just got to delay it. It's all about the different business models. And the thing is they've got great content. And I think they think it's come to this to some extent in response to Netflix in two ways.
One is that you know, Netflix is obviously been wildly popular. It is the go-to you know, OTT Streaming Service. So one is that okay? Everybody wants to binge on content and they can go to Netflix and they can watch an entire season's worth of whatever is available, you know over the course of a rainy weekend.
The other thing is that they started creating original content, and I actually think that kind of pissed off the big guy. Yeah, I think they're right. So it's one thing for you to be a channel for us. It's another thing for you to start actually competing with us. And I think that really took them by surprise.
And so you have them doing it. You have Amazon. I've seen I've seen reports that either or both of them might actually start investing in the cinemas like the movie theaters, Which, it's just a whole nother conversation.
Syya: Are you talking about the brick and mortar like the brick and mortar?
Syya: But what so they so does that mean you're okay you're implying is then the are looking to start creating movies and as in essence an alternative Hollywood, so they do create movies now and there was there was an article even just last week or the week before about a movie with Robert De Niro that Netflix is producing.
And he said you've got to give it a movie theater release. You can't just release it on Netflix. I can't be in a movie that doesn't have a theater release. And I think that is part of the deal so it will get released in the theater, but it will also be released on Netflix.
Syya: Why would he say that do you think?
Peggy: He's a big movie star, and it's the movie theater experience. And there are some movies, and I don't know what this movie is about by the way, I can't say the name of it. But there are some movies I think where the theater experience is dramatically different than the small screen experience or the very small screen experience.
Erin: Yeah, I just had no idea. No, there's a release Sandra Bullock has a movie. I just saw it posted the other day exclusively on Netflix, but exclusively on Netflix, and will be released in a limited theater setting. I get I mean that's got to be a huge reach that you lose if you don't. If you don't go to the theater because everybody's not a Netflix subscriber.. yet.
Peggy: That's right. That's right. Not yet. Not yet. I mean they are growing rapidly. But yeah, but the way but you know, this is kind of a digression from the conversation, even just about how we consume things on TV. And how the tv market has just changed and continues to change, and I think one of the interesting things that's, that's really coming to the forefront now is that there's an absolute acknowledgment by all the pay-tv providers, right? So the Comcast the Charters, Verizon, AT&T and then the massive numbers of really really small pay-tv operators exist in the United States, which I recently become familiar with because of the client of mine. And these little guys live in markets, you know, the smaller rural markets of America. They compete with the big guys because the big guys have expanded their footprint, but these guys are in the community.
They provide really amazing customer service. They know who all their customers are. They probably run into them in the supermarkets all the time, you know, and there's often similar services. They can't compete if they don't offer the same services as the big guys, and yet they see that it costs a lot of money to get access to that content. It costs a lot of money for the technology that it takes to manage a video service and everything. And they see these streaming services like a sling TV, Roku, you know pick one Moby TV, and they go, 'oh gee, maybe that's maybe that's how I should be delivering TV,' you know. But the requirements are it has to be able to have local content right has to have a local news channel has to have local sports.
It has to have that community focus and whatnot in some of those services can do that in some of them cannot. And they like the idea of the streaming content. They get that they have the subscriber base that's really mixed demographics right. That it's definitely aging in general, but there is still that youth element in that in that market and they want to make sure they serve that youth element with the different types of streaming services.
So the question is, how do they do it? How do they do it affordably? And one of the things that's kind of rising to the forefront is there have been a couple articles about this recently is can I have a mixture of both a linear TV and a streaming TV experience , streaming content experience on my TV, without having to play with lots of remotes??
Right because if you have a smart TV, your smart TV has apps, and you have to use the remote that goes with your TV. If you're going to watch TV, you get you to have to use the remote that goes with your set-top box and your pay-tv provider. So that's at least two remotes right there. And do you know, do you actually know which one you're reaching for?
Syya: I think that's my that is my personal issue I have with consuming any kind of TV. I only have. ..We have two TVs in our house ones in our media room, and it's a big screen projector. And the other one is in, you know, my boyfriend's office and I don't watch TV anymore. I just watch what's on the internet, and we just got onto the PlayStation View and if I want to watch a particular show, I guess I could record I don't watch live TV anymore.
Syya: So everything you're talking about I guess. As a consumer, it's our availability where the one that's driving, tt sounds like right. We're driving the change in how we receive our entertainment. So what does this mean for the infrastructure of the existing networks to have to support all those bandwidths?
Peggy: Well, that's the key isn't it? So interestingly enough every big provider out there. I so Comcast just released some of their numbers, right? So they lost they lost the video subscribers last quarter, but they gained Broadband subscribers. And that is the game for the operators now. The game is I'm going to sell you broadband, and there's going to be tears of broadband connectivity, right. And if you want if you're really going to be, you know, watching lots of videos, and if you're also working at home like you guys do and doing interactive, you know video calling and whatnot, you're gonna pay for that. You know, so they're good. They're good. They make more money. They make way more money on broadband than they ever did on video. Video's never really been a high margin business, but broadband, on the other hand, that's a high margin business.
Syya: So you can see where the Whole Net Neutrality conversation comes into play for these companies. I don't want to open a can of worms there. But that is in essence, is what the arguments have been, right? Is to look for people that are bandwidth hogs. They should pay more because they're utilizing that service more verses my mom who barely uses anything.
Peggy: That's right. So your mom can have the entry-level broadband service, and she's going to be really happy. But for anybody, especially families with gaming. I mean, and I don't follow the gaming Market as closely, but when you start looking at the rise all these multiplayer online games. Where you know the kid will have an absolute meltdown if they if they if their character can't react in the time that they need to be able to react to win the battle, you know, um. But no so broadband's everything at this point.
So and it again there is always going to be an interest in that live local content. And you know that these services that are out there today are going to be able to incorporate that ultimately. Like I said, some of them do already. So yeah, it's all about your broadband connection, and you're going to see I think you're going to see the.. I don't think you'll see the traditional linear TV go away at this point.
There's still like until the Baby Boomers have passed you're still going to have linear TV. So you got another 50 years of linear TV, but I think you're going to see it come together. And so there's actually there are solutions now that are coming to the forefront. Where you so with your set-top box, if you have your TV service you from your pay-tv provider and set-top box you can now layer on a streaming service on top of that. So now everything comes through one port on your TV, and they call that HDMI one right on the back of your TV set. That's for your set-top box always goes. So now imagine okay.
I have my setup box, and I can get all my streaming content on my TV as well. So I got this big effing screen that I can totally enjoy the quality of content, but now I can watch YouTube TV, or I can watch Hulu or Netflix and I can and I can use my remote control.
Syya: So basically, TV's are now monitors. I mean, that's what it is.
Peggy: Yeah they become a smarter monitor. So that's I mean that's kind of where the technology for pay TV is going. So have you heard about Comcast and the RDK? So the RDK came out in labs. and the idea of RDK is that you get a more modern user interface on your TV set. It is it's really good for all the really big providers. Ad Comcast is licensing this to everyone, all the big guys.
Syya: And what is RDK?
Peggy: It's such a geeky name right RDK, Reference Design Kit. But it's software. It's newer software that sits inside the set-top box and it gives you a more Netflix like user interface for watching linear TV. So instead of having you know, what the EPG looks like today the grid right? And you know, you have channels down one side and time across the top and you can scroll through the grid?
And that's or you can do the search button you can find content. But if you go on Netflix, you have what they call like the swim Lanes, right? So the first thing you would see on Netflix is what's trending now, the next thing you need to continue watching for Syya. The next Lane is because you like whatever, so that concept right scroll left, right that concept is called swim lanes.
So. So now with RDK, and with solutions from Google's Android TV operator tier, you can get that concept on any TV. You know lesser price actually Android TV Android might it have been a lot of Articles and Android TV operator tier might take RDK to lunch because it's much less expensive to deploy and it's basically kind of an open system.
We all know that open systems being, you know more appealing in the long run and it's in for like smaller operators. It's a more cost-effective model to take to market. It's the same thing really great slick-looking user interfaces allows the operators to brand the way they want to. But it allows them to blend the linear TV with streaming TV.
And if you have this Android solution you have access to the Google Play Store. So anything that's in the Google Play Store is now accessible on your TV set.
Syya: Wow. So okay, we're talking about the creators of content creators how they're looking at changing and evolving the way they distribute their content, right? What about these upstarts alternatives if you will, like YouTube? So my eight-year-old nieces and nephews only watch YouTube. That stupid Fortnight game, they watch grown-ass adults play the stupid game. Pardon my french, but it's insane. It's Insanity because they don't want regular TV, they watch YouTube. So what does that mean for TV and media?
Peggy: It's the rise of the YouTube Stars, right? And honestly you see it, and it's not just it's just not random people at you and I've never heard of. It is because right now I do feel like I don't know who any of these people are until all of a sudden I see an article. I'm like who is that again? But actually, the former CEO of Hewlett-Packard Enterprise and Jeffrey Katzenberg have partnered up to join something that's currently called new TV.
And what is that going to be? It's going to be content created for the mobile first generation, and it's going to be short-form content, designed to be consumed on your mobile phone. So the same idea. So YouTube is very much a youth and you have people like girls I get on the right show you how to put on your makeup, what kind of clothes to wear, how to bedazzle. I mean just pick something, right.
Then and there's going to be mobile first content. Where it's going to, I don't even know what it's going to be. But it's going to be short form content. So it could be Snapchat like I don't know it's gonna be Snapchat type content. I have no idea. But yet they're forming a company to do and they've got lots of big investors. So obviously, you know, everybody sees the future.
Syya: That is absolutely I think some that we can have dig in a little bit more, and I would love to do that. But we're kind of crunching on time, so let's leave that for particular discussion on tv, the fact that YouTube is a huge disrupter. And how that's going to continue the evolution in how we all receive our entertainment and our preferences. So on that note with changes, what we're also seeing is an evolution of women in media having rising in prominence and it's not just a good old boy network.
Although it is traditionally male-dominated industry. So. You talk to me about this women and Media Group, you know, can you tell me what is it and you know what to do with it?
Peggy: So yes, I saw it become the co-founder of a group called Women In Streaming Media. It evolved from a networking breakfast at NAB this past April and basically, the group is basically a forum to bring women together who live and work in the streaming media space.
Yeah, any of the technology companies, content companies CDN's, you pick it, you know, Do you do encoding? Do you package in terms of content? Whatever anything around streaming in media the idea is to be able to bring these women together. And some may advance in their careers. Get, you know, rise into senior leadership positions, get on more panels at all events that exist around this industry and whatnot. And really just women helping women. And it's not that we're anti-men in any way shape or form. We realize that there's a lot of great leading men in these industries, and we are in touch with a lot of them. But a lot of the companies that work in this industry have initiatives to hire more women into their businesses. You know you see it, but you see you hear about all the different things around stem, right, you know science, technology, engineering, and math.
A lot of the companies that are fed, you know through different type of engineering organization what not, they want where women in the space. So we are going to be partnering up with as many of these organizations as possible just to create more opportunity for women. So stay tuned as we are really just in the formalizing process right now.
We've had a bunch of meetups, but you know where we'll be at all the key streaming events. Streaming Key Media West is coming up in Huntington Beach, California in a couple weeks and my colleagues will be there. I will not be at that event, but I was at NAB New York and we'll be at NAB next year and things like that. So we actually have over a couple hundred in our LinkedIn group already. It's great.
Syya: I'm sorry. You said you had over how many members on your LinkedIn group?
Peggy: Over 250 members on our LinkedIn group. And this is yeah and this it's just that that rapid growth and there's just such high interest. The Meetup we had last week that NAB, New York was not necessarily highly attended but the event itself is not a super dynamic event, but the women were so excited to be part of something that's about women helping women.
Erin: So yeah, and I'll say okay, so I'll speak from somebody who does events. I think the whole key of women need to be their own, what's the word I'm looking for.. Women need to be their own be proactive on their own and be their biggest advocates and women aren't. And so I love that there's a group that will help because I think sometimes we just don't understand how to insert ourselves like men do that's exactly right. Yes, and I think this is really needed because even just on the events. Even like I am somebody who is pro-women, obviously Ihope I am. But it's the men who are inserting themselves. The men who are volunteering. The men who are helping, and the women just kind of sit back and wait to be asked. And so I think organizations like this are really incredible and great because it's important.
Syya: I think the way men think the way women think there's no so big surprise. There's definitely different ways we approach problems or challenges. And I believe with the way technology is driving TV and media. We need to have a bigger broader voice, and I love what you're doing with this Peggy because when you told me about this founding of the group, I was absolutely intrigued with what you guys can accomplish.
Peggy: I mean it's early days. There's so much we want to be able to do we want to be able to provide mentorship. We want to be able to connect with these organizations, you know, these Enterprise organizations to uncover internships that you know girls in college can pursue or people who are just starting out.
You know, to get your feet wet. Try it out see how it feels. You know just because you may not be a good fit in one organization or around one kind of technology or something like that, doesn't mean that there's not another place to fit in this area. It's such a growth area and like so much a technology up until now it really has been dominated by men.
They had it's not that they've done a bad job, but let's get more women involved as well.
Syya: Absolutely. Absolutly.
Peggy: And help me find their voice. I think one of the biggest things I think we've probably seen in the past year is that women actually are getting comfortable, you know, having a voice and speaking up for themselves. And that's been a really big shift.
So I think it's actually just really good timing for us in terms of getting this organization together and recognizing that there really was a gap in the market and there's a lot there are a lot of women's groups out there, but you have to look for them. And you know, we were just we're doing it through the different events that exist in this industry and just try to make noise around each of them to get the women at those events together.
Erin: So is this going to be now? I mean, I mean, I'm assuming just because you're talking about events all over the nation. Is this a national thing International? Are you just local right now?
Peggy: We are actually International. Our membership has women from every region of the globe. Which is pretty cool not bad for a few months, right. Exactly. Exactly. But yeah, I think when you start off at an event like any be you know NAB, which is the National Association of Broadcasters show that happens in Vegas every April, that is as much as it's a US-based event, but there is there are Global vendors at that event. You know, so I think just that first meeting that we had there, I met women from France, the UK, Spain, and Australia, so that was just such a good kickoff. And so we've had that in and actually interestingly enough, the Nordics have, are very pro women and so a lot of the women that have become involved or at it's like, you know various small and large companies in the Scandinavian region and its just really interesting talking to them because they don't I think it's just there's a different culture in those countries. And it's just very pro-equality.
Syya: Oh, well, you know culturally Sweden is much more egalitarian than the United States, right?
Peggy: So we can back that we can benefit from that and it will say I mean we've been very fortunate that you know, there are some men that are involved in like the in streaming media.com the streaming video Alliance who are very supportive of what we're doing and they really recognize that the benefit for the industry at large will be tenfold just by having, you know, a more egalitarian industry.
I like that word. That was good word. I'll be using that.
Syya: I'm actually very excited seeing and anything obviously we can do to help you guys support you guys if you guys come to Dallas hint hint. We'd love to participate.
Peggy: Well, we can create something in Dallas. Honestly, let's figure that out.
Yeah, cuz you've got with all with all the Telco tech companies you have there. We should definitely just kind of come together and figure out an event. So let's talk about that offline.
Syya: Hey, I'm all for it. So Peggy, how can anyone if they would like to follow up with you and get your opinion because I know you do a lot of blogging on LinkedIn. So if you look at Peggy Dau, you'll see her she write some great thoughtful articles, but what's your website at Mad Perspectives.
Peggy: Actually don't use my website right now. It's in the midst of being requested. But I want my love why you don't have a top, you know like yeah supervillain.
All right. So, you know when I started my business nine years ago when I left HP, I created a website but I didn't really keep up to date with it. I started blogging on my website and my blog, you know views were low and most of the comments were from spammers and things like that. So. Once LinkedIn allowed you to write articles as an individual.
I started writing blogs and articles on LinkedIn and my visibility is much much much higher because I live in a B2B world and Linkedin as a B2B Network. So now I'm basically updating my website just to have it to keep it as kind of like a placeholder so you can validate that I exist as a business, but honestly everything I do for my business to promote my business is all via LinkedIn.
So and that's what you know, it's a word-of-mouth business. It's not a you know, some big Enterprise by any stretch of the imagination and that's what's fascinating to me is that you're not doing the quote, you know, social media blasts, you know. Yeah, you're posting on LinkedIn but not like you're on Snapchat or any of the other, you know.
You know popular my clients are you know small to large businesses, you know, that's the provide technology into this TV media Telco space when I'm working when I'm heads down with the client. I'm heads down with the client and I don't necessarily have the time to stay current on Snapchat or Twitter or whatever.
So for me, I just warm about it for me is some more personal relationship. It's a more intimate relationship. Maybe is the way to look at it. I'm just not going to broadcast like just for the sake of broadcasting content and that's what Twitter is Right Twitter's a way to broadcast a whole lot of people and depending on the time that you tweet.
Maybe somebody's going to see it. Maybe they're not maybe going to reach we maybe they're not but I feel like honestly from the get-go for LinkedIn. It's always been about business. You know, there's no there's no money in the waters for me. I like that. I'm there to talk to you about topics that I think are really interesting that will help.
You understand like what I can help your company accomplish. So I wanted I guess, you know exactly so I guess the recommendation is if you want to reach piggy doll, just horrible Lincoln. Yep, go find me on LinkedIn. And it's Peggy Dau, well and again our show notes at the end of a post to over it Innovation calling dr.
Now so they can link directly to her. Exactly and then also Peggy. Can you go and give me the URL for the women's in streaming media site? Yeah. So actually I would encourage you just to go on to go on to LinkedIn and look for the women is streaming Media Group. Our website is really it's under construction.
So there's nothing for you to really see at the website, but it will be women in streaming media dot-org. Okay, excellent. So Peggy, I know we're running a little bit of time and I want to be respectful but I absolutely beseech you to return I would love to go and further details are on TV media because you know, I'm kind of obsessed with that topic.
Absolutely. Yeah, let's do it. I look forward to it. I appreciate it. For sure. And of course, I'd love to see you know, the next steps and stages where the women and streaming media where you guys go as you formally launched with you no more permanent website Etc. What I'd like to do is get some of my fellow women to come here and chat with you and Innovation calling professionally.
Thank you very much. The more women we can talk to you the better off. It is as far as Erin and I are concerned. So Erin you have any questions or additional comments with Peggy? No, just thank you so much. I know I want to do a podcast about advertising TV advertising, but we'll do that later.
Peggy: Yeah, absolutely. Thank you girls. This has been really fun. Well, thank you Peggy so much and again in a meeting notes folks. You can reach Peggy dot over at LinkedIn women's dreaming media page group and Linkedin as well. And I think that's it for this discussion on TV and media. Thank you for joining Innovation calling.
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